Non-Aristo-Craft Revo Installations

Jerry McColgan
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Revolutions into PA/PB-1's and F-3's?

Post by Jerry McColgan » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:37 pm

As per my previous post, I am considering installing Revolutions into USAT PA/PB-1's and F3A/B's.

In the past I have MUed Aristo FA/FB-1's without any problems but I have some hesitation with installing Revolutions into the USAT locos mainly because of past problems with the lights not liking PWC.

These new installations may include single, double and possibly even a triple MUed consist (A, AA, AB, ABA).

My thought is to test the locos by running them on a track powered by a Super Revolution and see how the lights work but that would only be a short term test.

Since this may involve a lot of work (multiple locos) I would really like to hear from anyone who installed Revolutions into USAT PA/PB-1's and or F3A/B's AND who used the original USAT circuit boards (much simpler installation for me if that will work).

I would appreciate any responses from anyone who has done this.

Note: I would also like to hear how well the PA/PB-1's and F3's work in multiple consists with individual Revolutions compared with having them MUed together. I have some doubts about consisting 3 USAT locos (ABA) with individual Revolutions because (unfair comparison I know) of problems I had in the past with trying to MU multiple FA/FB-1's with (very) cheap (and discontinued) MRC decoders. The F3's may be from different production runs and I don't know how closely they will run together - but they seem to be OK.

Thanks,

Jerry

PS - Why USAT PA's and F3's? Because only USA made the PA/PB's and they made them in MoPac which matches our MoPac caboose and the F3's were a trade from a dealer (who had dropped G Scale years ago) for old O Gauge trains I had on consignment with him (and were not selling well).

Peter Eaton
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Post by Peter Eaton » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:49 pm

Jerry, If you use the PWC to linear board between the REVO RX and the motors and lights you should be able to accomplish what you want. I use the PWC to linear board on all my GP-9's and F3-A&B's to get the lights to work. Pete
Pete

Jerry McColgan
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Post by Jerry McColgan » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:54 pm

Hi Peter,

I appreciate what you are saying but in this case it would be cost prohibitive (too many locos).

I did some testing today and found that, with the layout powered by a Super Receiver (Base Station), I tested all six F3's and the lights seemed to work fine on all of them without any adapters.

I ran them for over an hour with no noticeable problems.

Next, I tried running a PA/PB-1 and at first the lights did not seem to be working but as I increased the voltage the lights came on and then seemed to work without any problems.

Aside from the possibility that there might be some sort of difference between the PWC put out by the Super Receiver and a regular Revolution Receiver (probably unlikely) I should not have any problems with putting Revolutions into the F3's and PA/B-1's.

I will probably be installing Dallee sound systems in the locos and I will not need PWC to linear boards for them and I can probably save that expense.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Jerry
Peter Eaton wrote:Jerry, If you use the PWC to linear board between the REVO RX and the motors and lights you should be able to accomplish what you want. I use the PWC to linear board on all my GP-9's and F3-A&B's to get the lights to work. Pete

Peter Eaton
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Post by Peter Eaton » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:36 am

Jerry, I use power cars with the base station REVO RX and the PWC to linear board and battery power. I leave the mother board in any engine that I want the lights to work and am able to turn off any trailing engine lights with the light switch on the engine. I usually run three engine lashups ut have used four and five with no problems. Pete
Pete

Jerry McColgan
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Aristo Revolution into USAT F3

Post by Jerry McColgan » Wed May 02, 2012 8:28 pm

A new wiring diagram for the USAT F3:


Image

NOTE: I make no attempt to control the lights and smoke via the Revolution controls. I let the loco circuit boards continue to do that.

I should add that with the 6 USAT F3's that I put Revolutions into the lights work with all of them but naturally the light intensity is controlled by the Revolution motor output voltage since I powered everything through the motor output.

Following the above (based on original track polarities) the motor and lights will need to be reversed in the Revolution - or, knowing this in advance, you could reverse the wiring above to fix this if you prefer.

I have used the above to wire F3 ABA, AA and A units with no difficulties including hard wiring one AB set together. On the other hand, I can guarantee nothing so proceed at your own risk. Double check everything and don't trust wiring standards. I got my jumper wires from All Electronics and they matched the USAT wiring polarities but that is no guarantee that the next set would also match.

Jerry

Dan Pierce
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Post by Dan Pierce » Sun May 27, 2012 10:56 am

I looked in the manual and I must have missed the current specs for the head light and the function keys. Plus total current limit for all functions.

I have worked with decoders and have found that it is easy to exceed the current specs with light bulbs, and even some had 10ma limits on function keys which is half the draw of many leds.

Perhaps this is where some are having trouble with lights in locos.

And, yes I do understand the 100 ohm resistor to limit start/surge current of an incandescent bulb.

MParsons
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Decoder Limitations

Post by MParsons » Sun May 27, 2012 12:30 pm

One thing that is often overlooked is that while individual outputs may have certain amp ratings, there is often an unpublished cumulative limit / capacity beyond which the decoder may (at best) shut down or (at worst) fail.

When you use multiple output lines for constant loads on SOME decoders they may exceed some unpublished limit on what some part of the circuit . The ratings for decoders generally reflect motor draw and that part of the circuit is generally a lot heftier than the accessory feeds. SOME decoders can feed all accessory feeds at rated power. It would be interesting to hear from everyone about their experiences really loading these decoders up. I would think that the kit bashers among us are more likely to use the extra decoder leads that for most of us go unused.

T L Hutchins
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Post by T L Hutchins » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:52 am

MParsons wrote: It would be interesting to hear from everyone about their experiences really loading these decoders up. I would think that the kit bashers among us are more likely to use the extra decoder leads that for most of us go unused.
I know it is late for a reply to this, but here goes. Two of my Revolution installs have been on AristoCraft equipment, PCC Trolley and 0-4-0 no tender. No difficulties. The F40PH is a Great Trains engine that had the electronics blown and one bad original equipment motor block. I replaced the motor blocks with USAT motor blocks (AristoCraft had none with the right wheelbase). The Revolution controls 4 incandescant marker lights on the rear and 2 on the front (Part # CRE0001) of the engine through a 12v regulator. I think these lamps are about 50 milliamps each. It also controls the daisy chained coach lights which are LED strip lighting through a separate 12v regulator (approx 750 milli-amp LED load) that were installed before I even thought of a Revolution. The headlights and reverse light are controlled through the appropriate Revolution sockets. I used smoke boards for all of the lighting other than the headlight and reverse light. Honestly, I forgot to install the ditch lights and their smoke board before I buttoned the engine up. So far, I have received no overload or overheat indications after many hours of run-time.
---Hutch

Jerry McColgan
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CRE-57090 for Sound or CRE-57091 for Base Station?

Post by Jerry McColgan » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:32 pm

I had previously used the CRE-57090 PWC to Linear Device for Sound Board and just received some CRE-57091 Base Station PWC to Linear units that I ordered.

I am curious as to how others have used these devices aside from the obvious (filter PWC for sound boards or filter PWC for Base Stations).

In particular I am interested in perhaps using the 57091 for USA circuit boards including motors, lights and Soundtraxx Sierra sound boards. It is my understanding that there would be a voltage drop that might have a noticeable effect on the operations of the loco. This could be a concern if I put Revolutions in PA-1's and PB-1's but the PB-1's might not have lights or sound systems so would not need a 57091. MUing the PA/PB-1's is one option but there would remain the question of a voltage drop in a PA/PB/PA-1 configuration.

I worked on this some time ago as per a previous post but I have forgotten any conclusions I may have made and I did not have any 57091's at the time.

As I get older I find this stuff harder to remember and install.

Jerry

Jerry McColgan
Associate Member
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2000 4:00 am

Is there a way to totally delete a post?

Post by Jerry McColgan » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:52 pm

I wanted to delete this post but have not figured out how to do it - if it is possible.

Jerry

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